No Kings Ransom For Rick Nash

I don’t want Rick Nash on the L.A. Kings…

“What!!??”

…because he will cost too much.

If Jonathan Quick is injured, do you want to put our goaltending faith into some scrub? I don’t. Jonathan Bernier is valuable and should not be traded. Update: Since writing this article, some have questioned what is so valuable about Bernier. I thought I would make a list of why I don’t let Bernier go:

1. Quick hasn’t proved anything in the playoffs; 

2. As much as Quick has been our MVP,  I am not presumptuous enough to say Quick is better than Bernier and Quick is this team’s number 1 in the long term. How many examples have you seen of goalies playing out of their mind one season and falling on their faces another?

3. I am biased with Bernier because I love his hybrid style and while Quick is the better athlete, I am still not certain he is the better goalie.

4. Ask yourself this question – is Quick locked up in his contract? No. It’s a factor. A big one.

Jack Johnson is a better player this season than he was last. He was a better player last than he was the season before. In other words, every season, he is getting better. Jack Johnson’s ceiling (read: potential) is very high, about as high as it gets for offensive defensemen. I don’t want to see Jack mother f’in going anywhere.

Drew Doughty is the franchise. For all of the grief he receives, that $56 million dollar son o’ bitch has world class talent and with maturity can become the Kings’ most valuable player (and a Norris nominee) on a consistent basis.

Anze Kopitar is untouchable. My friend, Matt Barry, made this proposal:

My proposed deal would actually be Carter/Nash/Mason for Kopitar/Bernier/Penner

Insane.

Rick Nash isn’t worth Kopitar’s swollen left nut. As I tweeted Matt, if Kopitar goes the other way for Nash, I will quit.

Lombardi will not trade Mike Richards so it’s not even worth a discussion.

Without Jonathan Quick, we’d all by crying.

Now, if Lombardi can pull off Rick Nash for Dustin Brown, Andrei Loktionov (which would make Quisp very sad) and a 2nd, fine. Substitute Loktionov for Voynov, fine. I would be sad to see each of those players go, but that’s a good hockey deal. Nash is better than Brown, will score more goals and the fact he is in his prime is worth one of our younger players to win now. That is as far as I would take it. Of course, salary would have to go the other way of course, likely Penner. Anything more and Columbus can go fuck itself…respectfully of course.



Categories: L.A. Kings News

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98 replies

  1. I would give up Bernier & Brown plus any of these guys, Penner, Stohl, Gagne, etc………plus a pick or two but I think Columbus would want more than an unproven goalie and a hard hitting role player such as Brown.

    • I’d give up Penner, Lotki, and JMFJ for Nash and a 2nd rounder, JMFJ would be better suited on another team, he’ll never amount to much as a King

  2. Agree on all acounts. Brown I wouldn’t do personally, but wouldn’t fight for the likes of a Rick Nash, but I honestly don’t want Rick Nash that bad.

    Brown is if anything a potent 50 to 60 point player just like Nash (Nash only scored 1 season in the 70’s and has played 1 more year than Brown), but Brown has been a far better leader for his team than Nash.

    If you go by who commands their teams respect more, I’d say Brown has. Brown has not scored as much as Nash, but he leads the league in hits consistantly, and draws penalties more consistantly on top of his scoring. Browns teams have won, while Nash’s teams have bottom fed throughout his career.

    It actually surprises me that Nash’s +/- is not an issue, but everybody condemns JJ for it, and cries for Nash to take his place. When you take into account that Nash’s extra offense versus Browns comes at over 4 million more dollars a year than Browns price tag, the deal sucks.

    If it’s Brown included in the deal, I’d understand, but I’ll be bitching and complaining the whole way.

  3. I like the idea of capitalizing on Carter’s bad attitude and bringing him to LA where he can chill-out, have a drink or seven, and score several dozen goals a year. I would also love to see Nash as a King. However, both of these combined are nowhere near the price of seeing Kopi leave town.

  4. CBJ are going to want G and D to rebuild from the back end. That means if any trade for Nash is involved it means bernier and a young defenseman JJ or VV plus pick and/or roster player

  5. Also, with no disrespect to Barry intended, our problem is scoring, no way would giving Columbus a 70 to 80 point player to Columbus for a 50 to 60 point player is worth it. I see the offset with Carter, but why pick up a head case when you know Kopi is a solid and stable player in every respect?

  6. Not sure how JJ is getting better when his minus seems to drop further each season. Trade JJ, Bernier, Loki, Richardson or Lewis

    • Last season he was a -21. This season he is a -10. He was a -10 when TM left, and after 26 games is EVEN. Is that not improvement? He’s even scoring at a better rate under Sutter as well.

      • He’s still making his same old dumbass mistakes. I like the guy as much as anyone, but there’s no denying he still has his head up his ass pretty often. I’d much rather choose VVV over JJ, he’s going to be a better player.

  7. Sending Kopi would be such a dumb move. DL complained about not having strong C for years. A strong 1-2 combo down the middle. He gets MR to compliment Kopi and now there is speculation he will send 11 to CLB. If he pulls this trigger, it will fulfill what I was worried about a few months back. DL making some dumb trade for the short-term. At the time I said that I hope TL has him on a short leash and ALL trade proposals have to pass his desk. The last thing the Kings need is a GM that is in panic and win now mode, making trade(s) that in the long run set the club back.

    DD is good and the sky is the limit, but for now this team is dependent on two players. Kopi and JQ, without them this team is getting a lottery pick. LA just FINALLY solved the issue at C during the offseaon, by acquiring MR. You don’t fill one hole in the line-up by creating another one. Poorly run organizations and GMs that are in a panic mode make such moves.

    Trading Kopi then gives LA MR-Lokti-Fraser and ? down the middle. Stoll, after this season LA moves on without him. Other than faceoffs the guy brings nothing to the team. Trading Kopi means LA again is then missing the 1-2 combo down the middle, not to mention it likely puts undue early pressure on Lokti’s development. No Kopi for LA means they have to go out and find someone during the summer now to fill this hole. Good luck even finding a guy that can bring half the points and the intangibles he brings to the club.

    Kopi is starting to finally really get the notice he deserves. Now if he can ever get out of the annual mid-season slump, he will really be noticed. He is one of the best two way guys in the league. Get someone on his left that WILL and CAN bury the puck and his pts will move into the realm of all the guys that get the press.

    Trading Bernier as part of this package is also pre-mature. Until LA has Quick locked up long term they cannot gamble on JQ and JB. To do so again shows that DL has abandoned his “from the net out” theory, because trading means JB will mean LA HAS to re-sign JQ. He will likely command salary comparable to what Rinne got last summer.

    Trading JJ, while difficult to stomach is the only roster player that makes sense. You trade from strength. LA’s strength is depth at D, from LA to prospects still in college and juniors. Their other strength is G, but the next tier of players aren’t quite at the same level and depth as the D. The problem with trading JJ is he is the total team guy. Long-term friendly contract, tattoo….it’s all been discussed before. It really would likely have an impact internally that as fans we wouldn’t ever know, but i am guessing it wouldn’t be positive.

    As much as I would like to have Nash. LA doesn’t have what it will take to acquire him without creating holes in the current line-up. DL has already sent the #2 and #3 for 2012 for MR and Pancakes (talk about a total waste of a pick). LA absolutely HAS to keep its #1 in 2012. They need to get at least one player out of the first three rounds. This draft is expected to be a good and somewhat deep draft of talent, but going in with only picks starting in the fourth won’t cut it.

    If DL makes this trade then do it based around trading V V/Amart, Penner (rumored to be turned to TOR), Jones/Zatkoff, Lokti if necessary and a #2 in 2013 (or even the #3 in 2013 and 2014). Trading along these lines makes more sense for LA as it doesn’t rip apart what DL has termed “the core” now for years. For CLB it also gives them three young players to build with, 1 or 2 draft picks – and likely another pick from TOR for Penner.

    YOU DONT TRADE KOPI for Nash plain and simple. It’s still about this summer and signing Parise to play along Kopi. Trading away Kopi is not and will not be the answer, or the way for the Kings to win the Cup.

    • I would relax…Kopi is not being traded! Matt Barry was just messing around to get everyone’s panties in a bunch and it has clearly worked on some.

      • Matt Barry was just messing around to get everyone’s panties in a bunch and it has clearly worked on some.

        … It’s always amusing to see posts like this. Someone posts something seriously, then learns it’s completely retarded and asinine, and there’s a prompt backtrack and spin. “Oh, c’mon now, I was just fuckin with y’all!”

        No, Matt was serious with this. He’s done this before, and he will do it again. You don’t need to cover for him.

        • Have you met Matt?

          He was half serious but there was absolutely a large “fuck with everyone” component to that post.

        • Not my point because I don’t really care what Matt Barry says, but the fact that Kopi would be moved at all for anyone is ridiculous. So, for anyone to take it serious and rant for a while about Kopi moving is, well, a waste of time.

          • Not my point because I don’t really care what Matt Barry says, but the fact that Kopi would be moved at all for anyone is ridiculous.

            … When has being ridiculous stopped him before?

          • We know Matt Barry is ridiculous, but I’m refering to Whiskeypete’s commen…oh nevermind you’re Ridiculous!

  8. And what I see a couple of people gave been forgetting is Nash has NEVER had a line mate that is all-star caliber except this year but Carter has missed quite a lot of games. Put him with Richards or Kopi and his points will double, same with there’s.

  9. Ya, let’s keep paying Doughty $7million per season for his potential!
    He isn’t even a top 10 defensemen this season and he’s being paid like one and then some.
    We have plenty of defense on the team and in the pipeline.
    Move Doughty, Bernier and Penner for Sanford and Nash.
    Sanford is an decent back-up with good experience and insurance against any issues with signing Quick long-term and Nash still has plenty in the tank.
    Bob T: you said what I’ve been saying.
    “Put him with Richards or Kopi and his points will double, same with there’s”.
    Nash is a top 5 Right Winger in the league, with size and putting him with Kopitar or Richards, who are both very good centers on offense and defense will allow him the freedom to go to the open spots and score even more than he already has in his career.
    He has been the focul point of every defense playing Columbus since he came into the league and they still haven’t been able to stop him.
    Imagine what he could do with some help!

    • Are you rating DD by points? He’s 27th in the league in scoring by a defensemen, but since Sutter took over, his ptsPG has improved, and his Fenwick has dramatically improved.

      By that same criteria, How the heck does Nash rate top 5 right wings in the league when he’s ranked 21rst in scoring by right wingers? Nash also has only played a whole 4 games in the playoffs, not to mention he’s a career -74 in the NHL, and a -34 in the OHL.

      Nash hasn’t been able to bring any of his teams together and lead them in his whole 8 year NHL career. Year after year, his teams are broken easily, and he’s been powerless to stop it.
      All of a sudden he’s the savior the Kings are looking for?

      • Once again, who does Nash really have to feed him the puck so he can move up the ranks in scoring this season?
        His career shows consistent scoring for more than one or two seasons.
        Look at the numbers!
        You’re comparing his season like we are that of the Kings, just take away: Richards and Williams.
        Columbus’ opponents only have one main line to focus on in their defensive planning and even we couldn’t solve that problem when we were shut out earlier this year 1-0!
        Do I think Nash is the Messiah?
        Fuck no!
        That being said, I have NHL Center Ice and watch other hockey games besides the Kings and I’ve watched Nash play several dozen times this and last year.
        He still plays hard and goes to the net, he just needs some playmakers like Kopitar or Richards to get him the puck.
        I agree with you guys, there’s no way in hell I would trade Kopitar for Nash.
        I can tell you this though, I would trade anyone else on the Kings for him except: Quick or Richards!

        • He would most definately would be playing with better players, but how do you know in a defense first system like the Kings system, he wouldn’t score even less (just like Richards, Zues, Smyth, Penner, Gagne, or any forward currently playing on the roster)?

          • Because Zues,Smyth and Gagne (IR) don’t currently play for the Kings and Penner (CD) needs to lose some fucking pancake weight before he gets a chance to play in a game again!
            Like I said, I’ve seen the effort that Nash gives consistently when he plays unlike IHOP BOY!!
            Did you see what happened in the last game?
            Two big boys (King and Nolan) went to the net and scored. Dustin Penner would only got to the net if there were pancakes and syrup in it!!!!!

          • Until the Kings fix system changes in their game, I don’t think anybody they bring in will improve in scoring.

            The last few years, nobody they’ve brought in even scores at their season averages.

            I don’t hate Nash, I just wonder if he’ll end up being a more expensive Richards.

            Brought in to score, used defensively, and instantly take a 20 point loss on season totals (seasons not over yet, but he is on pace to score that much less).

  10. I am amazed how many amateur GM’s there are out there. I would not trade Kopitar for Nash even one to one. Pretty fuckin stupid idea.

    I am just as troubled by the Kings’ anemic offense as anyone else out there. Having said that, lets not do something stupid to try to solve this problem.

    News flash: There is no Messiah out there for this team. The best that can be hoped for is a good deal, where the Kings get more than they give up, and are a modestly better offensive team.

  11. I agree with you Bobby! Letting go of Bernier is a bad idea for the exact reason you mention. Is Zatkoff going to get us anywhere in a playoff series? No way. We’d be screwed if Quick went down.

  12. Kopitar, Quick and Doughty are untouchable for me right now. I wouldnt trade Richards either. Bernier i would move in a package for a player the calibre of Nash. Nash is not another Penner, so the risk is alot lower. I really like Voynov and would hate to see him leave as well as JJ but for the right deal I think they could be moved.

  13. God bless you Bobby. Maybe penner, ( gulp ) muzzin cashish and MARTIN JONES. Deslauriers is untuochable. Kopitar……absolute insanity. If Kopi was in the east….he would be top 3

    • I dont even like the idea of moving Martin Jones. I keep saying that Dean Lombardi is keeping these goalies for a reason. The only way I see it happening is Columbus taking a bunch of cast off prospects. And God help us Jake Muzzin! Plus cash.

  14. Trading Brown to Columbus would be so, so mean.

  15. All those willing to swap Kopi OR Dewey OR Bernier OR JJ OR Brown for Rick Nash are psychotic assholes — Jason, this means you.

    Nobody likes talented big guys any more than I do. But if any of you out there are fussing about how lame our offense has been this season, just remember that Nash — whom I’d love to have — isn’t exactly tearing the ice up in Columbus. Like I said on another thread, he hasn’t even out-scored Wayne Simmonds, he has THE WORST plus-minus of any forward in the league, and his anuual price-tag is more than we pay for JMFJ AND Brown.

    We’ve got to put a cork in this delusion that some big-titted sniper is gonna ride outa the east and transform us overnight into the 1980s Oilers. We traded away Simmonds and Schenn for more offensive oomph and what happened? We’re still the same grinding, box-‘em-out defensive squad we were before, without the size we used to have to fore-check with authority, without even the goals Simmonds reliably gave us.

    If we stop this spastic trade mania for a microsecond, we might see that we already have the guys with the talent and drive to pull us through this offensive Dust Bowl. There’s no reason to go door-to-door, hat-in-hand, offering to exchange our greatest assets in the hope — not even the expectation — that some winger is gonna kiss it and make it all well.

    Keep the fucking faith, guys.

    • “He has the worst plus-minus of any forward in the league”

      You do realize he plays for the shittiest team in the league and probably gets the lion-share of ice time as well, right?

  16. Carter/Nash/Mason for Kopitar/Bernier/Penner is a win for the Kings if Nash signs an extension at a reasonable price. You guys are too stuck up the Kings asshole to realize it though.

  17. On board with mostly everything, except for this:

    “If Jonathan Quick is injured, do you want to put our goaltending faith into some scrub? I don’t. Jonathan Bernier is valuable and should not be traded.”

    If the focal point of this trade is your backup goaltender, you absolutely do it. The Kings are screwed no matter what if Quick goes down… to argue that having an insurance policy that in all likelihood won’t see a minute of ice time in the playoffs is so “valuable” that it shouldn’t be traded for a sniper that would have an effect on the game every shift he took is silly.

    Agree with not trading JJ. Trading Kopitar is such a completely stupid thing to suggest that it shows exactly why any legitimacy Barry brings with Kings insight is washed away with the absolute garbage and nonsense he spews.

    But if a deal could be swung for Bernier + Voynov/Loktionov + High Pick/Hickey… it would be a no brainer. I could live with the gamble that Quick won’t get injured, and a decent veteran backup could be had on the cheap at the deadline anyway.

    • I should have read the comments before commenting. Drew you hit the nail on the head.

      TOP LINE SNIPER.

      BACKUP GOALTENDER.

      You can only have one…

      WHICH DO I PICK??? ITS SO HARD!

      I said this in the other thread, there are always backups available. You can always sign a new backup, very easily. You can always find one.

      You cant always find a top line sniper.

      Man I shouldnt even have to explain this further. This is so shortsighted, like Jonathan Bernier is the only other goaltender besides Quick in the universe, and if Quick gets injured, and there is no evidence to suggest he will, we have to keep Bernier around just in case because there is no other goaltender in existence, and we would have to put Doughty in goal.

      This is the argument Lombardi and Gillis use just as BS to keep leverage in negotiations. “I know the value in having two #1 goaltenders, because if one of them gets injured we have another, and thats why Im going to hold onto Bernier/Schneider unless I get blown away, because I know the value in having two top goaltenders.”

      Translation: the other GMs cant expect to wait me out and get him for cheap, or expect I will force a deal to get the sniper I really need, because Im actually really happy having a highly touted backup goaltender at the expense of my offense.

      Its BS. I cant believe Scribe would fall for that, this is the site that does so many Dean Lombardi translations of what he really meant, I cant believe they would miss this. Its posturing to maintain leverage in trade discussions.

      Anyway Drew you said it all. Nash for Bernier would be a gift.

      • Few things:

        1. Injuries is one concern.

        2. Quick hasn’t proved dick in the playoffs when it matters.
        Love JQ but I am not presumptuous enough to say Quick is better than Bernier and Quick is this team’s number 1 in the long term. How many examples have you seen of goalies playing out of their mind one season and falling on their faces another.

        3. I am biased with Bernier because I love his style and while Quick is the better athlete, I am still not certain he is the better goalie.

        4. Is Quick locked up in his contract? No. It’s a factor. A big one.

        Now, I didn’t go through all of this in the article because I didn’t think it would be necessary. Just like I didn’t think it was necessary to point out we are talking about Nash here, not Parise or someone of Parise’s caliber. Sure, you have to give to get but if you are going to trade a goalie of Bernier’s caliber along with better prospects and players, I want a better and more complete player than Rick Nash

        • … Agree with you 100% on all of these points.

          I think it’s important to realize that this is Quick’s first above-average season as a starting goaltender. Two seasons ago, he was a poor goaltender. Last season, he was average.

          I didn’t believe that Quick had this level of performance in him, and while he proved me wrong this season, there are a couple of factors which lead me to believe he won’t be able to sustain this level. I’ll probably go over them in an article, but I definitely think that the jury’s still out here as to whether signing Quick long-term is truly the right way to go for the Kings.

          • “I think it’s important to realize that this is Quick’s first above-average season as a starting goaltender. Two seasons ago, he was a poor goaltender. Last season, he was average.”

            I will grant you that his save percenatage and GAA were mid pack among starters (over 1000 minutes played, to pick a number) those two years, but just a few numbers don’t always tell the complete story.

            Two years ago Quick was 6th in wins with 39, a club record. That is not average. He did it in 72 starts and was widely seen as fatigued from overwork. His goal support was 9th that year.

            Last year, Quick ranked 9th in wins, tied with two cup winners in Thomas and Niemi. He won 35 games in fewer starts, only 60, and won those 35 games with the 25th ranked offense; so many fewer goals makes 35 wins even more impressive.

            To just concentrate on GAA and save percentage can be misleading, and in this case I think it is. The guy is clutch, because he does what it takes to win, and that is not easily measured.

          • wins

            … Wins are a team stat, and literally the worst number with which to rate goaltenders.

            Save percentage isn’t perfect. No stat is. But that stat, and its derivatives, are the best we have to go on.

            He did it in 72 starts and was widely seen as fatigued from overwork.

            … Quick played better in the second half of 09-10 than he did in the first, and his save percentage in March of that season (.907) exactly matched his number for the entire season.

            The guy is clutch

            … Notwithstanding that there’s no reason to believe that clutch ability even exists, there is nothing to support your assertion except your own bias.

            Quick’s overall record is much worse in the playoffs than it is in the regular season. Granted, it’s a small sample size. But, it also doesn’t support your claim.

  18. Yeah losing kopitar would be a mistake, he’s to good on D. I agree with your proposal, brown, loktionov or voynov. I hate too lose brown but at the same time I wonder if he’s not the right Captain for the team. It cant be good to take away the C so maybe he should be traded. The other thing I’d give them would be Loktionov and voynov + the 1st. We could then keep stoll for 3rd line center albeit at a cheaper annual salary.

    Dump Penner for the best return you can, a 2nd?

    I’d give up bernier only if mason was coming our way. I think Mason could use a change of scenery and working with Ranford could really improve his game. Seems to me Ranford is a kick ass goalie coach.

    But we should seriously consider the Nash,
    Imagine him playing with Kopitar or Richards, that would be insane. Don’t think they’ve ever had a good C to play with Nash on the BJs.

    It’s bullshit we can’t extend Quick now and have to wait till next year. How the hell are you supposed to build a team when you can’t plan ahead? It’s a dumb rule. Also the trade deadline is too far away from playoffs. It’s still too close to call for a lot of teams, they don’t know if they are buyers or sellers. NHL needs to push the deadline further out.

  19. i think that dominick hit the nail on the head with that.

  20. “I don’t want Rick Nash on the L.A. Kings…

    “What!!??”

    …because he will cost too much.

    If Jonathan Quick is injured, do you want to put our goaltending faith into some scrub?”

    All due respect Scribe, this is flat out unabashedly ridiculous. Ill read the rest of the blog after commenting, but unless you change your thesis halfway through, its just ridiculous.

    The St Louis Blues didnt have a backup last season. They barely had a starter. Now their backup has the best GAA in the NHL, that being the guy they signed for nothing in the offseason.

    The Detroit Red Wings have Ty Conklin and Joey Macdonald as a backup tandem. If Howard gets injured for the playoffs, will they have a problem? Sure, but goaltenders almost never get injured, and you can say the same thing for any top player. “If Anze Kopitar gets injured, what will we do?”

    IF. IF. IF. IF. IF.

    All this if bullshit is absolutely ridiculous. OMG if Quick gets injured, and like Bernier gets injured, and then the Kings sign another goaltender, and like he gets injured, and then Dean Lombardi gets sick so theres no GM to sign another goaltender, LIKE OMG WE COULD BE SCREWED.

    It is the stupidest, stupidest argument. Did the Boston Bruins need a backup goaltender to win the Cup last season? No, but they did need goal scoring. Did the Blackhawks need a backup to win their Cup? No, Niemi won all 16 games (if memory serves, in any case won all four series for them). And before he was the starter, he was a no name nobody.

    Do you understand the sheer stupidity of your argument? I don’t want to add a top-line goal scorer because it might mess up our backup goaltending situation.

    Top line sniper. Back up goaltender.

    That’s your argument. No offense Scribe, i love the site, but its just the stupid. Youve set a much higher standard for yourselves and Im holding you to it! This backup goaltender nonsense belongs on Jewels from the crown, lol, not here.

    90% of NHL teams have normal backup goaltenders, not future #1’s in waiting, and they get by just fine. None of the last three cup contenders have needed a star backup “just in case” to win the Cup.

    Just a ridiculous argument. Getting a top line sniper for the 30th offense, and all you have to give up is someone who doesnt even play for you 80% of the time, thats a fucking gift, a home run, a no brainer.

    • I don’t think that is quite what he’s getting at.

      The issue issn’t whether we need a back up. The goaltending issue is that Quicks’ contract is up after next season, and the Kings might lose him, or need to trade him if the contract becomes too expensive to afford.

      They might not lose him, but the issue is, we can’t get rid of Bernier till Quick is secure.

      If his value is worth a Nash now, next season his value will still be here to spend. That isn’t going to change if we don’t trade him right now for Nash.

      Secure Quick 1rst, and then spend, not spend 1rst, and roll the dice. That’s all he’s getting at (maybe).

      • Also, if Quick gets hurt, we don’t have a replacement better than Bernier.

        • That’s why in the trade I’ve talked about, I’ve included getting Sanford back from Columbus!
          Dumbass!!

          • Are we back to name calling?

          • I read the blog, do you?
            You’ve given me a ration for my views on trading Doughty instead of Johnson.
            Look it up and then say:

            “Also, if Quick gets hurt, we don’t have a replacement better than Bernier”.

            The replacement I’ve brought up (Sanford), shut us out this fucking year!!!

          • That was a response to 3teamFans post, and I wasn’t insulting him, I was clearly just stating a different way of looking at it.

            Again, my post had nothing to do with yours. I do have some that do, but no reason to act so territorial just because my view differs from yours.

          • Jason, I’m sure you’re a fantastic guy. I’ve no doubt about it. And I usually enjoy reading your hockey comments. It’s also great that there is no banning of comments on this site. But really, if you don’t care for someone or how they approach things on the site, cool. I for sure understand that.

            But when it gets to throwing invectives at people, dude I know for sure you’re above that.

          • …. and just saw that things got cleared up below and thats great to see. Well done.

  21. I’ve seen a lot of posts about not having a proven back up JQ if he goes down, and I think you guys are not giving the D enough credit. JQ does find himself flailing around the net every now and then, its the solid D that always takes away all the passing lanes and forces the first man in to shoot right into him with no screen or traffic in front. I think with our starting D we could make just about any goalie look good…the problem is our offense makes the opposing goalie seem just as spectacular

  22. Rick Nash is averaging approximately a point per game in his career against the Kings and .80 against the entire league.
    I’d say that’s pretty fucking consistent!!

  23. Over the past six seasons I compared 1st line Brown with 1st line Nash,
    here are the results:

    Dustin Brown- 300 total points=50 points per season average w/ 570 games played
    Rick Nash- 392 total points=65 points per season average w/ 649 games played

    here are the digits:
    Brown- 6′, 209, 27 years of age
    Nash- 6’4″, 216, 27 years of age

    This season, Brown has not scored a single point in 33 games
    Nash 26
    But here’s the whopper!
    Brown has 11 streaks of 2 or more games with no points and 2 streaks of
    5 or more games with no points and he’s the first liner!!
    Nash has 8 streaks with 2 or more games with no points and nothing close to
    5 or more games.

    • So those extra 15 points per season average is worth paying an extra 4.6 million for?

      Where does Nash end up in hits every year to go along with those extra 15 points?

      How many times has Nash led his team into the playoffs?

      Where is Nash on the +/- list, and how much of an impact would that make on a team that is defense first?

      • Well, you’re willing to pay Drew Doughty extra money for his fucking potential!!
        Ask Terry Murray about his potential!
        Potential is what gets GM’s and coaches fired and pisses of real fans!!!!!

        • Since Sutter became coach, DD is putting up top of the league numbers. Check out his Corsi numbers since Sutter’s arrived.

          Not his fault he had a GM who wanted to stonewall him over chump change to force a long term deal, then have a coach who didn’t know how to design a proper offensive attack if his life depended on it.

          • He didn’t deserve the contract he received!

          • It’s Lombardi’s fault, like I’ve said before.
            He has set a very bad precedent with that agent.
            It scares me to think that the other players on the Kings that he represents might act the same way!

          • That part is a personal assesment that many agree with you on.

            I don’t care what he makes, I just care about what he’s doing on the ice, and right now, he’s scoring at the rate he should be for someone of his talent.

            The start of the season is a wash because he missed camp, and had Murray as his coach. Can’t change that part.

      • His plus minus for his career is actually around 0,
        if you don’t count the first two years of his career and this year.
        That’s pretty good for a shitty team that’s been in the playoffs once in franchise history and was swept in four games.
        By the way he had 1g and 2a in those 4 games for an average of .75 points per game in the playoffs,
        really close to his career average against the Kings .80!!!

  24. One more time;

    Nash is a SNIPER!!!
    We need a scorer, not a guy who doesn’t get points in 5 straight games twice in the same season or any points in 33 out of 57 fucking games!!!!!!!!
    Bernier is a backup for us and a career backup from what I’ve seen.
    Give me Nash all day long!
    Doughty is replaceable, we have defensemen everywhere!
    We don’t have scorers that are 6’4″, 216 and go to the net every game!!!
    I hope Nolan and King tear it the fuck up but, Nash has been there, done that and has the t-shirt and the coffee mug to prove it!

  25. Ok, no more name calling.
    Are we cool?

  26. Heres one I just saw on Spector’s Hockey with a twist:

    Nash, Vermette, Mason and Clitsome for
    Doughty, Bernier, Brown and Penner.

    It works under the salary cap and Clitsome has good size and is fairly young (26)also (one more year at $1.25 million), Mason has been a starter (good back-up goalie and under contract through next season), Nash is a sniper and Vermette is a pretty good 3rd line center to replace Stoll and he’s under contract for 3 more years after this season at $3.75 million per, not bad.
    Please look at the numbers and possibilities before you start giving me shit, seriously!!

    I know Doughty has tremendous potential (so does JJ for less $$) and I know Brown is our Captain.
    I’ll just ask the dramatic question.
    If not now, when?

    Go Kings!!!!!

  27. to CBJ:
    bernier
    JMFJ
    penner
    picks/prospects
    stoll/hunter or both i dont care.

    to LA:
    nash
    carter
    mason

    if you wanna add carter to LA, the Kings can throw in some picks/prospects and stoll/hunter. not too sure about carter but he would be happy to play with his best friend again. im sure his points would increase here as well.

    bown-kopi-nash
    carter-richards-williams
    king-lokti-nolan
    clifford-fraser-westgarth
    richardson-lewis ……backups
    gagne ….IR

    DD-scuds
    mitchell-voynov
    martinez-greene

    quick/?? back up from trade

    • sorry, i was copying and pasting and forgot to delete/change somethings

      to CBJ:
      bernier
      JMFJ
      penner
      picks/prospects
      stoll/hunter or both i dont care.

      to LA:
      nash
      carter
      mason

      bown-kopi-nash
      carter-richards-williams
      king-lokti-nolan
      clifford-fraser-westgarth
      richardson-lewis ……backups
      gagne ….IR

      DD-scuds
      mitchell-voynov
      martinez-greene

      quick/mason

    • Boy are you asking for trouble!!

      You’d best have some very creative ideas as to what to do if Quick can’t be resigned. Zatkoff who has never played an nhl game as your No. 1?

      Also, I hope you’re good at managing the cap as you’d be sending away Bernier who doesn’t make much at all and JJ on a very manageable cap hit roughly $4.3M per year for a guy who is close to $8M per as well as another who is about $5.7 per year. So you’re bringing in around $14M…. in two players. One of whom has big question marks around him.

      That’s just my opinion, but when you make moves it’s helpful to be able to back up the rationale beyond just saying that they’ll score goals.

  28. Anze Kopitar is untouchable. My friend, Matt Barry, made this proposal:

    My proposed deal would actually be Carter/Nash/Mason for Kopitar/Bernier/Penner

    … Why would I trade away my 24-year-old player (who is the best player in this deal, incidentally) and my 23-year-old goalie for two 27-year-old players and a 23-year-old goalie who’s one of the worst goalies in the league and has been for a few years now?

    That’s just asinine. That’s making a trade for the sake of making a trade. I don’t even see where the Kings even take a step sideways with a deal like that. It would be a small step back at best, and a giant step back at worst.

    I think people here are going to have to face some facts. The Kings are a .500 team with little depth. They don’t have enough to overpay for Nash, and overpaying is what it’s going to take to land him because everyone else wants him. This isn’t a video game – you’re not the only player in the game, going up against artificial intelligence. There are other teams out there with real-life experienced GMs and real-life players and real-life fans.

    The Kings don’t need to make a deal. What they need to do is get more out of what they have at the present time, and it remains to be seen if this leadership group is capable of doing that.

    If you want to make a trade so badly, play your video game.

    • That is also a pretty asinine statement to make. With that mentality you wouldn’t have traded for Richards or Penner or anyone else for that matter. All you need to focus on is making the players you have better…

      There is a middle ground, you know. You don’t have to go after the “best” when you already have some of them. But that doesn’t mean you should be at the other side of the spectrum and stand pat.

      It’s harder to acquire depth than go after the top notch. Depth players are less likely to be traded and the return usually makes a team worse. So, with a depth trade you have to give up more of value to gain the need.

      • With that mentality you wouldn’t have traded for Richards or Penner or anyone else for that matter. All you need to focus on is making the players you have better…

        … First off, I’m talking about right now. I don’t see anyone out there the Kings can acquire by trade that will fix much at this point in time. They simply need to get more out of what they have. Once we get to the offseason, the Kings might be in a better spot to think about making a trade.

        Second, they shouldn’t have made the trade for Richards. They gave up far too much.

        The Penner trade was a different story – they gave up a low first round pick and a player they weren’t going to use anyway.

        • Eh, I see a clear need for some wingers with a good shot and nose for the net and burying pucks. We’ve got the top two centers to make plays and set people up. So far we’ve got JWill who is crafty and has a nice shot, and then…who? Brown? He’s decent. He plays great for awhile and then average for awhile. Penner? He’s funny, and he has the skillset, he’s just not putting it together with consistency. Gagne filled the slot decently, but he’s gone.

          I think it’s been pretty clear for a long time now that this team needs a couple of wingers. We probably lose a top six winger in the trade, but if it’s an upgrade I think that’s a win.

        • Guess what JT. You know what? I Agree With YOU.
          Totally. There is virtually not one single scenario for a trade at this moment I can think of that makes sense.
          You get another ancillary player like a Halpern, or whatever the other guys name was, or even a Hunter…. does nothing but take up space.

          You get one of the high ticket guys and it saddles you with a bad contract unless you get Nash for very very little. We all know that isn’t gonna happen.

          As for the Mike Richards trade, my dear friend told me that you have to make that trade every time. But watching from a far now, I do think absolutely they gave up too much. I don’t think in principle it was bad to make the trade…. but i watched Schenn on the highlights the other night, and only Schenn, or only Simmer and a pick, yes. But Schenn, Simmer Plus a 2nd. Nope. Lombardi is showing that he doesn’t have that magic touch in a trade.

          For magic touch ref refer to Burke, Briian and Phaneuf, Dion.

          Sort a frustrating I find. I just don’t have nearly the faith in Lombardi that I did at one point.

        • The fixing isn’t done by the players in this case, it is done by the management and coaching. The players play the system.

  29. Eric Smith over at Hockeybuzz have an interesting view over a possible trade. He suggests Nash/Sanford for Bernier/Johnson/Penner and a pick. I’d take that since I’m the 1% believing Bernier will not pan out with the Kings.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eric-Smith/What-Teams-And-What-They-Could-Give-For-Nash/96/42232

    • Then you obviously have experience as a pro scout if you see something in his game that would make you feel that he wouldn’t pan out. Also….. as someone somewhere (Bobby maybe?) pointed out, JJ keeps improving every year. Who knows what his ceiling might be? And….. at a reasonable cap hit.

      You can’t ….. repeat…. can’t just keep saddling your team w one $7M contract after another. Nash, Doughty, Kopi (almost), then you’ll have Quick next.. Then who?

      I actually am learning to put no stock whatsoever in what hockeybuzz says.

      • I believe Quick is worth $5-$5.5 million per season.
        He’s making $1.8 million this year and next.
        You’d be more than tripling his salary at $5.5 million per season and I’ve been saying since last season, he’s worth every penny!
        Sign him to a long term 8 year deal and he should be good to go.
        Brodeur gets-$5.2 million, Thomas-$5 million,
        Howard- $2.5 million, Fleury-$5.5 million
        Get it done on July 2nd!!!!!

        • Yes, that would be the perfect senario, but it’s not goign to happen. If the Kings make it to the playoffs, Quick will get vezina considerations, and that then leaves us at Rinne money. Those salaries you have listed above were worked out in a different time. Rinne has set the bar and Quick could easily get that money elsewhere.

          If we trade Bernier, we will lose Quick because the contract(s) we take back from that trade will not allow us to sign Quick to a Rinne contract, which i’m sure he’ll demand, and have us be successful longterm.

      • You are still learning not to put stock in Hockeybuzz? That site is a joke. I go there all the time, but just to talk hockey. Other than that, never pay attention to rumors. Ek has a less than 3% success rate… I’d say it is closer to 1-2% which he gets purely off luck.

    • Bernier is a career back-up, his technique is sound usually.
      If you’ve watched him play for the Kings (I hope you have), you might’ve noticed his tendency to start out games not ready to play.
      He will generally give up one or two questionable/weak goals early and then the Kings struggle to catch up the entire game.
      The outcome is generally a one goal loss like 2-1 or 3-2, just look at the scores of his games.
      In the game that Quick won for us the other night against Dallas, he made saves Bernier isn’t capable of making, that’s the difference.
      Quick is the best goalie we’ve had since Kelly Hrudey and probably our best goalie ever, short of Vachon.
      Bernier will get a chance as a starter somewhere and get one or two coaches and gm’s fired and then settle in as a career back-up.
      He will be lucky to get an 8 year NHL career out of his talent.
      Bank on it!!

  30. Finally someone says something good about JJ. If we can keep him two years from now we are gonna be wondering how we got so lucky to have a player like Jack with such a good contract. The answer is he wants to play in LA. We will also think DD is a bargain even though the price is high for his play this year. Is there any doubt that Sutter will demand both be hockey studs?
    Brown has been my favorite King since day one but it might be time for a change? I agree with you on Nash it’ll cost too much and until we lock up Quick long term we have to realize Bernier might be our goalie of the future.

    • Bravo Christian. Perfect.

      Also, everyone banging on about how Bernier doesn’t have the stuff; let’s be frank about this; there isn’t one person on this site with all due respect that I feel is qualified – and I include all of us, who can definitely say What or What not Bernier can do. How the heck can someone know? Is someone Nostradamus out there?
      Yes Bernier did in fact give up some bad goals early in games on several occasions. However, I remember last year when he played more frequently when he didn’t play at all.

      The possibilities are numerous. He could be putting undue pressure on himself this year as he knows how infrequently he gets a chance to play, he may be adding to that knowing that
      the team doesn’t score so again he needs to be perfect.

      Who the hell knows. But I find a little arrogance in someone saying ‘they know’ exactly what he’s gonna do. Personally I disagree. Maybe if I spoke with Scotty Bowman or Ken Holland and asked them what they see, I’d be inclined to take that on board, but that’s about it.

      And the point isn’t even what his ceiling is. The point is that if they trade him, then Quick has Lombardi over a barrel. We may think that $5M per is a great deal. We thought a bit more than that for Doughty. Many said $6M per year. Well he didn’t agree and Quick might not either.

      So for all of those who enjoy banking on having the possibility of starting Jeff Zatkoff as the Kings No. 1 next year (or the year after) …. well, better really think it out carefully.

      • sorry for the massive typo

        was supposed to be ‘Yes Bernier did in fact give up some bad goals early in games on several occasions. However, I remember last year when he played more frequently when he didn’t have any problems early in games’.

  31. Nash’s contract is so ugly that Howson has to deal him it seems, if C BUS wants to rebuild, might be a good opportunity to low ball them… with the year he’s having it would be a mistake for C BUS to deal him in the offseason

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  1. NHL Blog Beat – February 16, 2012. | Spectors Hockey
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